I have to disagree, Kimi. With that theory, LL Cool J would have been just as good a candidate. I am fully against anyone who voted in this election because of race...either way. I think voting against or for the black man is wrong. People should have voted for who they thought would lead this country best. Whether or not Obama was elected because of the issues or his skin color is something we'll never know. But I'm disgraced by all the black people who voted Obama without studying the issues at all. It's great that we now have our first, ever black prez. But that should be second to his ability to run the country.

I happen to think that voting for Obama because he's black is JUST as bad as voting against him because he's black. It shouldn't have been about skin tone.

Sidenote: My fiance and I work at the same retailer in different departments. One kid he works with just turned 18 and couldn't wait to vote for McCain in this election. I thought it was rare to be a republican gay...but to vote McCain in THIS election...What's up with that?

 

You don't think that they would have vote for a white Obama?? During the 60's they were motivated to vote for JFK, in the 90's some were proclaiming Clinton as the first "black" president, because they overwhelmingly endorsed him.

And last you don't think that some voters could have been turned off by the liberal side of the candidate?

 

I fully understand your point, Snoochies. I have no doubt that Obama is the best person for the job, and that many black people voted for him for that very reason. But I find it very difficult to believe that many, many black people weren't also very mindful of the opportunity they had to help make history and inspire their children and grandchildren. Many black people spoke in those terms afterwards...that they could now look their children in the eye and say they can aspire to anything, and know that they're speaking the truth.

 

In 1960, John Kennedy won two thirds of the black vote. That's a far cry from 93% (or whatever the final tally will be) in 2008.

As for voters being turned off by Obama's liberalism, why only in Appalachia and not, for example, in the plains or Rocky Mountain states?

 

In 1960, the black voters were primarily in the southern states, those in the northern cities saw the Democrats differently than those in the south. In the 60's the southern Democrat was far more socially conservative than todays Republican.

Perhaps when you have 4 people voting rather than 2 the last time, the 100% increase is not so startling.

 

Good thread...

What I found interesting was the correlation between red voters and health issues. Kind of as if people with certain health issues have a tendency to go up against change.

A bit strange that people who could gain some benefits from the changes ahead try to hang onto status qoe.

JB

 

Footnote to History!!


Knives come out for Sarah Palin; McCain aides tell tales of an ill-informed diva

2 hours, 20 minutes ago

By Lee-Anne Goodman, The Canadian Press
WASHINGTON - Sarah Palin wasn't aware that Africa was a continent and she and her brood behaved like a band of "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast," aides to Republican John McCain are telling prominent news organizations.
Less than 24 hours after McCain lost the presidential election to Democrat Barack Obama, those close to him apparently wasted no time burning up the phone lines to dish the dirt on Palin, the Alaska governor who portrayed herself as a sensible hockey Mom when she was chosen the Arizona senator's running mate in late August.
If the anonymous McCain insiders are to be believed, Palin was unaware that Africa was a continent, arguing that South Africa was simply a region of the larger country of Africa.
She also didn't know the three countries - Canada, the U.S. and Mexico - that are in the North American Free Trade Agreement.
A call last week by a Quebec radio prankster pretending to be French President Nicolas Sarkozy reportedly became a fiery source of tension between the already feuding McCain and Palin camps. An aide to the Alaska governor, Steve Biegun, OK'd the call without discussing it with McCain's people or the U.S. State Department.
The Los Angeles Times reported that an outraged Steve Schmidt, McCain's top strategist, organized a conference call after the prank - which revealed Palin to be ill-informed and naive - made international headlines and brought further ridicule to the campaign.
He demanded to know who had arranged the Sarkozy call and questioned why anyone would have agreed to such an unusual request and then failed to clear it with top staff.
Biegun immediately took responsibility.
"I was fooled," he told the L.A. Times in a report published Thursday. "No one's going to beat me up more than I beat myself up for setting up the governor like that."
The leaked stories about Palin's alleged antics throughout the campaign are appearing in publications that include Newsweek magazine and the New York Times just as Republicans begin meeting Thursday in Virginia to discuss the future of the party.
Many in the party's right wing are enthralled by Palin and her socially conservative views, and hope to make her a presidential candidate in 2012.
"I'm not doing this for naught," Palin said recently when asked about her aspirations.
Yet soon after she was chosen McCain's running mate and despite publicly defending her, his campaign insiders say they became queasy with the growing knowledge that Palin was desperately unqualified and ill-prepared to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.
They attempted to bring her up to speed on the issues of the day, but she refused any efforts to prepare her for a string of disastrous interviews with CBS's Katie Couric that proved extremely damaging to the McCain campaign.
The McCain insiders have told various news organizations that Palin nonetheless threw angry temper tantrums over their mishandling of her when the Couric interviews went badly.
The most salacious of the stories leaked - with many more supposedly still to come in the days to follow - involve Palin's infamous US$150,000 spending spree at some of the most expensive stores in the United States.
Despite her self-styled image as a down-home working mother opposed to big government spending, the aides told Newsweek she behaved like anything but: spending tens of thousands of dollars more than the US$150,000 originally reported on clothing, accessories and luggage for herself and her family.
One senior aide told the magazine that she was told to buy three suits for the Republican National Convention and hire a stylist, but instead, the vice-presidential nominee began amassing costly goods from stores like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus.
At one point during the campaign, Palin's youngest daughter, seven-year-old Piper, was photographed carrying a US$790 Louis Vuitton bag.
Two sources told Newsweek the goods were bought by a wealthy donor, who was flabbergasted when he saw the bills. Palin also allegedly instructed low-level staffers to buy her clothes on their credit cards, something the McCain campaign only discovered last week when the aides sought reimbursement.
Palin aides had a different version of events, with several telling the Los Angeles Times that she was outraged by the amount of money being spent on her clothing and that she was naive about what the clothes cost.
"The very first day of shopping, there was a $14,000 price tag and . . . she was absolutely shocked," one of the Palin insiders said.
Another told Newsweek: "Gov. Palin was not directing staffers to put anything on their personal credit cards, and anything that staffers put on their credit cards has been reimbursed, like an expense."
On Wednesday in Phoenix, Palin said: "There is absolutely no diva in me."
Nonetheless, a Republican party lawyer is reportedly heading to Alaska to inventory and retrieve the clothes still in Palin's possession.
The tensions between the two camps reportedly continued even into election night, when Palin met up with McCain at the Biltmore hotel in Phoenix with a concession speech in hand that she wanted to deliver before he took to the podium to address supporters.
Much to her chagrin, she was told by senior McCain aides that such a speech would be inappropriate since vice-presidential nominees do not traditionally speak on election night.
The relationship between Palin and McCain, in fact, had deteriorated in the final days of the campaign to the point that they were seldom talking.
"I think it was a difficult relationship," one top McCain campaign official told the New York Times. "McCain talked to her occasionally."

 

Interesting article, oldie, and the kind of attitude I had detected in Palin from the very beginning.

I hope more stuff like this comes out and convinces Republicans to let Palin fade into the background. Republicans have made a lot of mistakes these past few years; I hope for them they can (and are willing to) recover gracefully from this one.

 

I agree, Bunny, it was an interesting article about Palin...I'm not a bit surprised by what is being said about her...I hope she stays in Alaska, they can keep her...
When she first entered into the picture, I was a little concerned...However, when she opened her mouth I knew she was going to hurt the McCain ticket...

 

If the republicans do this, they will be tripping over their own footnotes!!

*not_secure_link*l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/nt/ma/ma_nws_2.gif *not_secure_link*l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/nws/p/ap_logo_106.png Can Palin resurrect the GOP? Does she want to?

By MICHAEL R. BLOOD, Associated Press Writer Michael R. Blood, Associated Press Writer Thu Nov 6, 6:21 am ET
WASILLA, Alaska – Is Sarah Palin the answer for defeated Republicans? After a historic rebuke at the polls, the Republican Party is staggering into an uncertain tomorrow with the White House and Congress in Democratic hands, no certain leader in sight and its membership divided over what it means to be a Republican.
Ever since her selection as John McCain's running mate in late August, Palin, the 44-year-old Alaska governor, was the star of the GOP ticket, though views of her vary wildly across the political spectrum. With the Republican brand corroded and the hunt on for the next Ronald Reagan, Palin could be one of many people competing to influence Republican ideas in the post-Bush era, maybe even as the party's leader.
"Conservatives are still looking for Mr. Right. And maybe Mr. Right turns out to be Ms. Right," said Bill Whalen, a fellow at the conservative Hoover Institution.
Palin "has built-in national stature and she's beloved by conservative talk radio," Whalen said. But "does she want to be a stay-at-home mom and a stay-at-home governor, or does she want to be a player on the national stage? She has to make a choice."
She has done little to discourage speculation — begun even as McCain's campaign faded — that she could return to the ballot four years from now.
In her hometown of Wasilla in the Anchorage suburbs, "Palin 2012" T-shirts are already for sale.
When she returned to Alaska on Wednesday night after losing the election, she was greeted at the Anchorage airport by chants of "2012! 2012!" Asked by reporters if she might run for president, Palin said, "We'll see what happens then."
Grover Norquist, a leading conservative and president of Americans for Tax Reform, called Palin "one of five or six people who is a plausible candidate for president in 2012," along with familiar names like Mitt Romney, Texas Gov. Rick Perry and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
"She's in the top tier, but she's not next in line." Norquist said. Running as vice president "puts you in contention."
Any number of other Republicans may step forward. Romney, the ex-Massachusetts governor who lost the nomination this year, has restarted his political action committee. Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal is heading to the leadoff caucus state of Iowa on Nov. 22 to deliver the keynote address to a conservative group.
For two intense months, Palin was the youthful foil to the old, sometimes cranky McCain. She was called everything from an empty skirt to the real deal. McCain, in defeat, called her "an impressive new voice in our party."
"She's somewhat of a diamond in the rough," said former Republican National Committee member Barbara Alby, who credits Palin with energizing the ticket. "I expect she'll grow from that."
But any path toward 2012 is filled with obstacles, some of Palin's own making.
Virtually unknown outside Alaska before her nomination, Palin revealed strong — even polarizing — views on religion, abortion and gay marriage.
She became a favorite among some social conservatives, but her cringe-worthy performances in TV interviews raised questions about her competence and provided fodder for late-night comedians. Her charisma attracted tens of thousands to Republican rallies, but voter surveys found her presence tilted a majority of independents and moderates to Barack Obama.
The governor who once won a Miss Congeniality prize was McCain's muscle, thrashing the media and her Democratic rivals in the conventional vice presidential role.
Her national political persona now bears little resemblance to her image as governor, when she was known for pushing a pipeline to carry natural gas from Alaska's North Slope, a bipartisan streak and taming the state's Republican establishment.
Some see her as a possible candidate for the Senate, should a vacancy occur, which would give her a new platform for her ambitions. Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, was clinging to a narrow lead in a re-election bid after being convicted of lying on Senate financial disclosure forms. Palin and others have called for him to step aside, even if he wins.
But Palin has rebuilding to do in Alaska. Voter surveys there show she remains popular, but Democrats are now more likely to view her negatively. On Wednesday, she said she hoped to show President-elect Obama how Alaska could be a leader in energy policy.
"Everybody in Alaska is seeing her in a new light," said Jonathan Anderson, an Alaska Assembly member and a professor at the University of Alaska Southeast.
"We knew she'd been the basketball player and beauty pageant contestant — and not too much more beyond that," said Anderson, a political independent. "She's back down with the human beings now, instead of being the star. Those things are going to follow her."
Mike Cannon, 41, who works on tugboats and fishing vessels, remains a Palin fan but was surprised by her emphasis on conservative social values during the campaign. "I don't agree with a lot of that stuff," he said in downtown Anchorage, nursing a cup of coffee.
The campaign, Cannon added, "revealed more and more of her limitations."
If she wants to lead the party, she'll need to find a way to stay visible in the lower 48 states — sooner rather than later.
"There continues to be a great deal of interest in her," said New Hampshire GOP Chairman Fergus Cullen, but "interest has a shelf life."

 

View attachment ​

 

the number of counties that voted more Republican than in 2004...

that the Appalachian region is a political enclave with distinct cultural and social characteristics from the rest of the country. And in this election, it's the only region where Republicans gained ground.
*not_secure_link*www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/5/13157/1286/456/654502

--------

The same kind of people who were passionate supporters of Franklin Roosevelt and his New Deal have been leaving the Democratic Party since 1966.

President Obama has had nearly four years to demonstrate to these people that the government under the leadership of a Democratic President could make a positive difference in their lives. After a similar period of time FDR did make that demonstration. Barack Obama has not. Most Americans, and this certainly includes poor whites, are worse off than we were when Obama was inaugurated.

One can say that things would be worse if John McCain had won in 2008. As a Democrat my instincts tell me that they would be. The point is that it cannot be proven.

One can say that things will get worse for most Americans if the Republicans sweep the next election. We'll see. My point is that if Barack Obama had turned things around we Democrats would not be sweating out what happens in November.

I'll vote for Obama. I would rather vote for a yellow dog than a Republican. Nevertheless, I am disappointed.

 

More pointless references to FDR, these are different times with a whole new set of problems facing the world, and remember Obama does not have the arms market that fell into FDR's lap to soak up unemployment and foreign debt.

 

This is true and besides no one ever mentions FDR's greatest and most successful accomplishment which was lying through his teeth to the American people about his intentions to enter World II. He actually campaigned against doing that knowing full well that if the world was going to stop the Nazis and Japan the US had to get into the war.

Fortunately he never had to prove he was lying on the campaign trail because of the attack on Pearl Harbor which propelled the US into the war with massive public support. Had that not happened FDR probably would have broken his campaign promises and gone against the will of many if not most Americans who wanted nothing to do with another European war.

 

And Nazi Germany would rule Europe. Japan would rule all of China, and much of the Far East. Another six million Jews and who knows how many million Slavs and East Asians would have been killed. Hitler's mausoleum in Berlin would be larger than the Taj Mahal.

 

politics are a joke in this nation.

All these things that make us different should be our strongest value.
But there not,they have been used to control us and to keep us apart and not a single voice.
If anyone believes for a second that being a rightie or leftie means anything,your mistaken.
They want you to think that your part of this big group that is fighting for america.
All it boils down to is they want us to keep at each others throats so they can keep getting away with whatever there agenda is.
Its 2012 for christ's sake.
/The only color that matters to the people in power is green.
They will keep getting more and more as long as we fight each other over the scrapes.
Go ahead and vote for ritt or obama in the end it doesnt matter one bit on how the people of the country will live.

 

FDR was so great and the people loved him so much that after his third term the American people amended the Constitution so democrats cannot stay more than 2 terms. They always screw it up for themselves. Is life not grand.:excited: